This one should be fun...

"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
05/03/2018 at 10:26 • Filed to: Ultimate money pit, Bring A Trailer, 600

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Such a brilliant car - but this one is not for the faint of heart, or weak of wallet...

This is the ultimate out of warranty used German car. 1st Gen Allroads ain’t got nuthin’ on this - but man I want it...

DISCUSSION (26)

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > WilliamsSW
05/03/2018 at 10:36

That is one fine piece of german luxobarge. Its the 450 SEL 6.9 that does it for me tho!

The 600 pullman had the same 6.9 right?

WilliamsSW > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
05/03/2018 at 10:39

Same family - they’re all M100 engines, but this is the earlier 6.3 liter, which I believe went into all 600's.

This is a SWB, not a Pullman - I suppose a Pullman Landaulet would truly be the ultimate money pit, but these are far more common.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > WilliamsSW
05/03/2018 at 10:45

If I ever have fuck you money, I’m getting a 6.9!

WilliamsSW > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
05/03/2018 at 10:48

They’re not super expensive to buy - it’s the upkeep that will cost you, and they can be money pits also, if you don’t do your homework before buying them. Not quite on the level of the 600 above, but still, you’re talking about some very old, very complex systems, and hard to find parts.

This was a semi-rough one that topped out at $16k the other day:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1978-mercedes-benz-450sel-6-9-2/

fintail > WilliamsSW
05/03/2018 at 10:49

For a mere 100K in work, you can have it roadworthy again, at least for the time being.

I like the old WI Simonson service sticker on the door, my fintail is from there.

Teh Penguin of Doom > WilliamsSW
05/03/2018 at 10:50

At least the current owner bailed after only a few months.

That interior hydraulic system will be the biggest problem. I believe it’s quite possible for someone working on it to be seriously injured, and I don’t think there are many mechanics around who are experienced at working on these.

WilliamsSW > fintail
05/03/2018 at 10:53

Yeah, I would presume that you’re going to have to throw an easy $100k at this car AFTER you buy it. Probably more.

Looks great from 50 feet (and in the right light with the paint mismatches) but you’d have to go through absolutely everything. And we already know that both the air suspension AND hydraulic system leak.

And shit, only 2 of the 4 horns work, that’s one of the highlights of these cars, dammit!!!

WilliamsSW > Teh Penguin of Doom
05/03/2018 at 10:55

Perhaps the current owner is in over his/her head. Wouldn’t be surprising.

So, you’re saying that 50 year old, 2000 psi, leaking hydraulics through the whole car *might* be an issue? ? Huh. :)

The air suspension won’t be a treat, either.

WilliamsSW > fintail
05/03/2018 at 10:59

So, what’s your SWAG on what this car goes for? This could be about anywhere — but my uneducated guess is that anything over $70k is a suicide mission, and $50-60k is more of a sensible buy??

fintail > WilliamsSW
05/03/2018 at 11:08

There is no really sensible buy for this car - renovation costs will exceed value of a roadworthy car, not to mention actual restoration costs will be wacky. Paint and bodywork will be at least 15K alone, and who knows what else it could eat as it appears to need systems work. Nice and unusual color combo, I’ll say that anyway.

I’d want to be in as cheaply as possible. I’ve seen these in the 40s, and even that would be insane. I don’t think many in the cult want these with much patina.

WilliamsSW > fintail
05/03/2018 at 11:15

Well, these aren’t investments, by any stretch. And yeah, ‘patina’ isn’t even part of the vocabulary with this crowd- - unless maaaaaaybe you had a car with a lot of provenance. If it was owned by Idi Amin, Kim Il-Sung, Chairman Mao, Saddam Hussein or the Pope the patina might be OK.

I would have to be a close personal friend of this guy to get involved:

http://www.mbgrand600.com/

kanadanmajava1 > WilliamsSW
05/03/2018 at 11:15

Looks promising but the color is horrible. What kind of person orders a 600 in red? Or paints a used one to red?

WilliamsSW > kanadanmajava1
05/03/2018 at 11:17

That’s the factory color, per the seller. I kinda like it, but yeah, if I’m gonna buy a 600, it’s gotta be black or GTFO.

Teh Penguin of Doom > WilliamsSW
05/03/2018 at 11:21

Ain’t nobody been killed by leaking air.

Also, the air suspension has eight degrees of freedom. The hydraulic system has a gazillion.

I used to have a 2002 E430. That thing still used a central engine-driven air pressure system for door locks and headrests. In 2002. Don’t know about now. (Yes, I know that in the old days, electric motors weren’t reliable.)

WilliamsSW > Teh Penguin of Doom
05/03/2018 at 11:24

Oh the air won’t be bad compared to the hydraulics, but it still will be a 5 figure repair.

It’s entirely possible that fixing the hydraulics could exceed the purchase price of the car, and I suspect there are only a handful of shops in the country who would touch it.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > WilliamsSW
05/03/2018 at 11:27

Exactly. Some of the suspension parts are now difficult to find and expensive. Same with the whole hydraulic system. I read that it’s $7k to rebuild the suspension system and that it need to be done every 2 3 years.

That’s too expensive for my taste :(

WilliamsSW > Teh Penguin of Doom
05/03/2018 at 11:28

I take it all back - just buy this book and DIY it. I don’t see how that could go wrong

https://www.authenticclassics.com/Mercedes-600-100Ch-Hydraulic-System-Repair-Book-p/auth-005358.htm

Teh Penguin of Doom > WilliamsSW
05/03/2018 at 11:31

I thought the air suspension could be done for high four figures if they are OK with aftermarket.

Hydraulics will be five figures just to get started. Would not be surprised at a six figure price quote to fix it all.

Teh Penguin of Doom > WilliamsSW
05/03/2018 at 11:32

Is there an app? Free I hope.

WilliamsSW > Teh Penguin of Doom
05/03/2018 at 11:36

Depends on issue, I was thinking $10-20k but it’s not like I know anything.

On the hydraulics, who the heck knows? Could be just 1 leak (hahahahahahahah NOPE) or enough that you need to R&R the system.

fintail > WilliamsSW
05/03/2018 at 12:03

Cars like this are where you buy the best you can afford - someone else’s finished project. Otherwise, it needs to be a labor of love where money doesn’t matter. I suppose this one is no less worthy of restoration than any other, just gotta find the right (rich) patron for it.

Karl Middelhauve must have enormous patience and bravery. I can’t imagine working on one of these.

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > WilliamsSW
05/03/2018 at 12:40

Hello Mercedes Classic Center, I need these parts..... how much??

WilliamsSW > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
05/03/2018 at 12:52

If you thought the parts were bad, wait til you see the labor charge...

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > WilliamsSW
05/03/2018 at 12:55

Oh I didn’t buy an older Merc sedan in Hawaii from a former Pan Am employee who had it flown in, when I figured out what could happen monetarily I passed. I just keep my W123, it’s not bad and has the classic feel.

WilliamsSW > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
05/03/2018 at 12:59

W123's are sweet cars, thankfully without the worst of the headaches this car *will* bring (no maybes here...)

What was the car you passed on from Hawaii?

I seem to be on a Mercedes kick lately, because I’ve fallen in love with a W212, and am working to acquire one...

Cé hé sin > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
05/03/2018 at 16:11

If you need to ask.....